Perkamon-fr May 2015

perkamon-fr@traduc.org

3 participants
4 discussions

Re: [Perkamon-fr] Bug#786525: Disruptive changes should be loudly announced
by David Prévot 24 Jun '15

24 Jun '15

Hi Martin, On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 10:39:33PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote: > You could even raise the gravity of that > bug to block the package transition to testing if you feel that this > change should be reverted. Even if disruptive changes in the gettext/po4a toolchain (and underlined Perl handling) are always painful (one has to make sure every contributor is using the “right” version, the amount of changes in the PO files to cope with the upgrade can be huge), with my Debian packager hat on, I’d say that now (early in the development cycle) is exactly the right moment to make such change if it’s an improvement worthing the disruption. CCing perkamon lists since the man-pages translation project may be even more affected by this change and is likely to have more to say about it (thinking about all the charsets(7) manpages containing tables is a bit terrifying ;). I believe changing the tbl handling has already been discussed in the past but was not followed upon because of it being too disruptive, but I may misremember. I hope the “convert a pre-existing translation to po4a” HOWTO from po4a(7) will ease the PO files changes needed to cope with the new way to handle man pages table (I intend to give it a try soon for procps and findutils, unless this change is to be reverted of course). I’ll report back if there is an “easy way to upgrade” worth documenting with the “beware, disruptive change!” currently missing. Keeping the initial bug report as context for the newly CCed people. Regards David > On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 11:10:56AM -0400, David Prévot wrote: > > Package: po4a > > Version: 0.46-1 […] > > I just spent a fair amount of time searching what did I do wrong while > > updating some manpages-fr-extra PO files, and finally figured out that > > the “Man module splits tbl's textblocks into separate lines” change in > > po4a was likely the cause of the fair amount of changes I witnessed in > > the PO file I was currently dealing with. > > > > Please, do at least add a NEW entry to help users figure out that this > > change may cause a fair amount of new fuzzied strings when upgrading to > > this version. > > > > > > With po4a 0.45-1: > > > > $ LC_ALL=C make stats > > findutils: 760 translated messages. > > […] > > procps: 1948 translated messages. > > […] > > util-linux: 3683 translated messages, 575 fuzzy translations, 311 untranslated messages. > > (or, with the file I was currently working on) > > util-linux: 4397 translated messages, 43 fuzzy translations, 129 untranslated messages. > > > > > > After upgrading po4a to 0.46-1: > > > > $ LC_ALL=C make stats > > findutils: 716 translated messages, 35 fuzzy translations, 15 untranslated messages. > > […] > > procps: 1507 translated messages, 199 fuzzy translations, 222 untranslated messages. > > […] > > util-linux: 3647 translated messages, 625 fuzzy translations, 329 untranslated messages. > > (or, with the file I was currently working on) > > util-linux: 4322 translated messages, 132 fuzzy translation, 147 untranslated messages. > > > > > > Having to deal with hundreds of noop changes is not really nice, even > > less so when it comes as a surprise.

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Bug#786569: [man] Two spaces are forced after closing parentheses at EOL
by David Prévot 22 May '15

22 May '15

Package: po4a Version: 0.46-1 Severity: normal [ Fixing this would cause a disruptive change, feel free to tag it as wontfix if you don’t intend to make disruptive changes. This is a long standing issue already noticed in perkamon that was not raised before because it would be disruptive, but #786525 made me think that if we are going to make disruptive changes anyway, maybe this issue is worth fixing too. ] Hi, Double spaces after a dot or a closing parenthesis are kept verbatim, and a newline after a dot or a closing parenthesis is also “translated” by a double space. This causes, for example (from hwclock(8)): […] (for compatibility with .BR \%clock (8)) as a decimal integer. to be translated in the following PO stanza: #. type: Plain text #: C/man8/hwclock.8:735 msgid "" "[…] (for compatibility with B<\\%clock>(8)) as a decimal integer." ^^ On the other hand, man(1) viewers do *not* display two spaces after this closing parenthesis while reading “man -LC 8 hwclock”, so this behaviour is a mistake introduced by po4a. Ditto, this string in the manpage: recent calibration. Zero if there has been no calibration yet or […] is translated in the following PO stanza: "recent calibration. Zero if there has been no calibration yet or […]" Even if the double space after a dot is kept by (broken) design*, the double space after the closing parenthesis is definitely wrong. Again, fixing this issue will cause many string to be fuzzied and might not be desirable because of that, but should be widely announced if fixed. Regards David * “(broken) design”: The GNU project advise to use double spaces after a final period (and they are indeed respected by man(1) interfaces). In English, as in French, the space following a final period should be a “long space”. Of course, since the man(1) interfaces usually display text using monospace fonts, it makes not much sense, and instead it became usual to use two spaces instead in some fields. One may argue that forcing doc writers to handle such hack would be stupid and that only the viewers should be patched to offer readers the text displayed as it should be, but unfortunately, it seems the other way around has been chosen. Anyway, it makes little or no sense for po4a to respect the number of spaces in the msgid, and probably not so much when creating manpages from msgstr, but I’m drifting into some considerations that may not reach consensus and thus I’ll stop.

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Re: [Perkamon-fr] suite à ma première visite sur http://www.traduc.org
by Peter Wilson 21 May '15

21 May '15

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Le WEB ANIMATEUR 2.0
by Peter Wilson 06 May '15

06 May '15

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Perkamon-fr May 2015