Traduc Janvier 2003

traduc@traduc.org

56 participants
57 discussions

nouveau
by Loic 07 Jan '03

07 Jan '03

Bonjour à tous, Je suis nouveau dans le coin et plein de bonne volonté pour vous aider :) J'ai commencé à traduire le fichier configure5.help qui se trouve sur le ftp, mais Toady sur irc m'a justement fait remarqué que quelqu'un peut avoir déjà commencé. Donc voilà, je demande si je peut prendre en charge la traduction de ce fichier, le cas échéant ce que je peut traduire ou relire. Merci Loic

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Version 0.11 of po4a, and future directions
by Martin Quinson 06 Jan '03

06 Jan '03

Ca devrait interresser pas mal de monde ici... Je vous l'accorde, c'est un peu bas niveau et en anglais. Laissez moi faire un rapide résumé: po4a est un outil pour simplifier la traduction (et surtout la maintenance de traduction) de documentation grace à gettext et ses amis. Pour l'instant, il y a 3 modules : - pod (pour la doc perl), qui marche parfaitement - man (les bonnes vieilles pages de manuel), qui marche tant qu'on frime pas en nroff. Ie, il marche pour 76% des pages installées sur ma machine. - kernelhelp (la doc des options de compilation du noyau), qui marche parfaitement. La suite, c'est un module sgml en gestation, et un usage plus large de ce programme, pour avoir des retours des utilisateurs. Gerard, je pense effectivement à toi et à ton projet de traduction des pages man... Merci, Mt. ----- Forwarded message from mquinson ----- Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:31:18 +0100 To: po4a-dev(a)nongnu.org Cc: debian-i18n(a)lists.debian.org Subject: Version 0.11 of po4a, and future directions Hello, I'm pleased to introduce you a new version of po4a. This is version 0.11 (yup, same version than gettext ;) General ======= First of all, i moved back to a single package organization. The former organization (ie liblocale-po4a-perl, po-pod and po-man) was a nightmare to maintain because most of the code was identical between po-pod and po-man. For example, the diff between pod-gettextize and man-gettextize was one line long, the only difference being which module you load (Locale::Po4a::Man.pm or Locale::Po4a::Pod.pm). So, now, there is only one package, and only one serie of binaries for all modules. Of course, each binary take a new argument specifying which module do you want to use. That's really easier to maintain, but I'll go into problems when a po4a module have a dependance on extra libs/program like po-debiandoc does with ngsml, for example. I guess po4a will recommand those extra package, and try to gracefully fail if they are not present on the system, just like debconf does when curse isn't installed. I still have some problems to include the translated documentation of po4a in the generated deb file, but i think it's a detail, and won't go further on that issue here. Anyway, this translation is yet to be done ;) Modules ======= I've added a new binary to the package called po4a-identity which is usefull to test modules. It takes a document to translate as input, and produce its translation without using any po file. If the module is idempotent, the produced document should be exactly the same than the original one. This allows me to speak now about the status of each modules. In fact, no module can be idempotent, since we wrap paragraphs around. So, to test the idempotence of a module, one have to compare the generated text output from the original document to the one obtained with the po4a-identity output. Pod.pm ====== I did run some tests for all the pod files on my machine, and Pod.pm runs almost perfectly. Here are the known problems 1) The wrapping is sometimes changed. ..................................... It's just weird. Sometimes, the two spaces after a ';' for example are kept by pod2man (or groff?), which seems plainly wrong to me. 2) Text is sometime splited on wrong position ............................................. I have another problem with /usr/lib/perl5/Tk/MainWindow.pod (and some other pages, see below) which contains: C<" #n"> Lake of luck, in the po4a-identity version, this was splited on the space by the wrapping. As result, in the original version, the man contain " #n" and mine contain "" #n"" which is logic since C<blabla> is rewriten "blabla" Complete list of pages having this problem on my box (from 564 pages ; note that it depend on the choosen wrapping colon): /usr/lib/perl5/Tk/MainWindow.pod /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/overload.pod /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/pod/perlapi.pod /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/pod/perldelta.pod /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/pod/perlfaq5.pod /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/pod/perlpod.pod /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/pod/perlre.pod /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/pod/perlretut.pod Beside of these two minor issues, the Pod.pm seems quite usable now. On the way, I had to fix a bug here and mask another there: 3) handling of the string "0" is errorprone in Perl ................................................... I submitted the following patch against the Perl Bug Tracker: --- Man.pm 2002-12-18 22:35:43.000000000 +0100 +++ /usr/share/perl/5.8.0/Pod/Man.pm 2002-12-18 22:36:27.000000000 +0100 @@ -759,7 +759,7 @@ $index = $_; $index =~ s/^\s*[-*+o.]?(?:\s+|\Z)//; } - $_ = '*' unless $_; + $_ = '*' unless length($_); s/^\*(\s|\Z)/\\\(bu$1/; if (@{ $$self{SHIFTS} } == @{ $$self{INDENTS} }) { $self->output (".RE\n"); ---------------------------- Without this, "=item 0" was changed to "=item *" because the string "0" is evaluated to wrong, even if it's not the empty string... 4) pod2man lies and don't wrap anything ; groff is smarter than podspec ....................................................................... I had a whole bunch of problems with pages containing stuff like: FUNCTION { } (there is a lot of them in Tk bindings documentation). The problem is that the first line isn't indented, so the pod specification says that it should be wrapped. But in fact pod2man don't wrap anything personnaly, and let groff do that for him. The problem is that in groff, the rule is that no indented line is wrapped. So, on the previous example, groff will indent the line "FUNCTION", and that's it. To mask this bug, I made that the Po4a::Pod.pm parser consider as verbatim any paragraph with at least an indented line. That way, I consider too much paragraphs as verbatim, but it should be harmless. Man.pm ====== This module isn't idempotent at the source level, because of wrapping, and because I wanted to make translator's life easier. So, if I see this chunk in the original: | this is a stupid text, but | .B be carefull | it's not that easy to handle. The translator will face this text in po file (note the use of pod sequence): | this is a stupid text, but B<be carefull> it's not that easy to handle. And the produced text will contain | this is a stupid text, but \fBbe carefull\fR it's not that easy to handle. raw results of tests .................... Before I comment them, here are the raw results: # of pages : 4323 Ignored pages : 1432 (33%) parser fails : 850 (20% of all; 29% of unignored) works perfectly : 1660 (38% of all; 57% of unignored; 81% of processed) change wrapping : 239 ( 5% of all; 8% of unignored; 12% of processed) undetected problems: 142 ( 3% of all; 5% of unignored; 7% of processed) Pages ignored are so because they contain a comment indicating that they were produced from the pod format. In that case, po4a refuse to go further, and recommand to the user to translate the source file, not this generated one. For pages generated by other means (like docbook2man), po4a will emit a warning and process the page. Parser fails on pages based on mdoc(7), pages using conditionals with .if, defining new macros with .de, and more generally, being too cleaver in nroff for our simple parser (which is not a real interpreter). To detect wrap changes, we run diff on the generated cat files, and if a change is detected, we run a modified version of wdiff(1), which also ignore hyphenation changes. If wdiff don't detect any difference, we assume that the changes are harmless. But for 3% of the pages, po4a isn't idempotent and can be considered as buggy. Most of the time, the changes are about font, with some chars being bold instead of italics, or so. But the problem may also be problematic. Repporting any problematic problems is good, but if you could come with a fix, it would be even better. ;) Arguable macro handeling ........................ Here is a list of macro, there definition from groff(7) or man(7) and what I do with it. It's not optimal, but I don't have any better idea for them: .de macro: Define or redefine macro until .. is encountered. Since we're not a real groff interpreter, we can't handle such cases. A possible improvement would be to read the macro name and its definition, compare this to well known user macros, and accept it if the definition matches. .ie cond anything: If cond then anything else goto .el. .if cond anything: If cond then anything; otherwise do nothing. Same problem, but I've really no idea here. .so filename: Include source file. Not sure what we should do here. For now, I offer the ability to translate the filename to translator. But maybe, we shouldn't even have to translate this, letting man searching for the translated version of the file. Ununderstood but used macros ............................ Here is a list of such macros (partial list since the program fails on the first unknown macro): .. ." .AT .b .bank .BE ..br .Bu .BUGS .BY .ce .dbmmanage .do .DS .En .EP .EX .Fi .hw .i .Id .l .LO .mf .mso .N .na .NF .nh .nl .Nm .ns .NXR .OPTIONS .PB .pp .PR .PRE .PU .REq .RH .rn .S< .sh .SI .splitfont .Sx .T .TF .The .TT .UC .ul .Vb .zZ Any input welcome. Specific problems about some pages .................................. /usr/share/man/man1/md5sum.1.gz: Here is the diff at the output level: - d3b07384d113edec49eaa6238ad5ff00 md5-test-file + d3b07384d113edec49eaa6238ad5ff00 md5-test-file Here is the diff at the macro level: -.B d3b07384d113edec49eaa6238ad5ff00\ md5-test-file +.B d3b07384d113edec49eaa6238ad5ff00 md5-test-file The author wants to put an extra space at the end of the macro arg, but it fails because of the wrapping. Please turn the wrapping of either by indenting the paragraph, or by using the .nf/.fi groff macros. Conclusion about Man.pm ....................... Since ignored pages are translatable with po4a::pod and since wrapping changes are acceptables in most cases, it looks like the current version of po4a can translate 76% of the man pages on my machine. Moreover, most of the untranslatable pages could be fixed with some simple tricks given above. Isn't that coooool? As you can see, this module seem mature enough for a wide use. I still would prefer some more testing before releasing the beast. KernelHelp.pm ============= It's a new module to handle the configuration help of each compilation option of the linux kernel. There is several projects here and there to translate the /usr/src/linux/Configuration.help file, but no assisting tool. An this format is quite prehistoric (chuncks are separated by '\n\n\n'; each chunk is of the form 'short desc\nvariable\nlongdesc, paragraphs separated by one empty line'). Moreover, since all the documentation for all kernel options are stored in only one file, managing translation should be a nightmare. This would explain why 2.4 kernels aren't translated to french while 2.2 were. The module is done and seem to work. The only problem I know is that wrapping is turned of for now, because the file contains tables which are not specifically indented and would get messed up if I turn wrapping on without getting the original changed. But that's a detail. The main problem is that we should patch make xconfig and such to use the translation also. Will see how much time I'll have to argue with developpers ;) FUTURE DIRECTION ================ Once I get Man.pm running sufficiently good (ie, no really hurting diff anymore), I'll give it for general consumption, and die from the numerous bug repports I'll certainly get... For example, it would be more than great if I could convince Gerard Delafond, with coordinate the translation of man pages to french to use po4a. It would be possible, he comes from the kde translation team, they are already convinced of the interest of po-based translation tools. I now dream of a texinfo module, but this one seems harder (ie, longer) to do. Not as hard as Man.pm, because I can steal code from texi2html, but this perl script is pretty long and indigest... Another idea would be to embed the addendum files into po files, as regular comments. It would be rather usefull for short addendums, like the ones for man pages, containing only the name of the translators. For bigger addendums, it would still be possible to use separate files. AVAILABILITY ============ Until end of Xmas break, I can't syncronize my package pool. So, for now, get the package from there: http://savannah.nongnu.org/download/po4a/ Thanks for reading 'till the end, Mt. -- Each language has its purpose, however humble. Each language expresses the Yin and Yang of software. Each language has its place within the Tao. But do not program in COBOL if you can avoid it. -- The Tao of programming

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Re: [Traduc] nouveau
by Loic 06 Jan '03

06 Jan '03

Merci :) Alors pour la traduction du configure5.help qui se trouve sur le ftp, je peut le continuer, personne n'est dessus ? Loic On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 20:03:08 +0100 Raph <raph(a)r4f.org> wrote: > Salut, > > Je viens de t'envoyer un mail, alors que je me suis complètement > gourré ! > Je t'avais pris pour quelqu'un d'autre et ce n'est qu'en relisant ton > adresse e-mail que je m'en suis aperçu... > Désolé, mais bienvenue sur la liste Traduc malgré tout ! > > A+ > Raph

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Nouveau point sur les traductions de la Linux Gazette
by JC 05 Jan '03

05 Jan '03

Nouveau point (Claire a pris un article tout à l'heure) : Site en français : http://www.traduc.org/article.php?10.0.2) Site américain : http://www.linuxgazette.com Articles de la LG n°86 (janvier 2003) : lg86-A : An Undeletion Experience, by C.E.C. Artime and J.A. Baro : en cours de traduction par Guillaume Lelarge le86-B : I Broke the Console Barrier, by Stephen Bint : en cours de traduction par Guillaume Lelarge lg86-C : EcolNet and the escomposLinux.org project, by Javier Malonda : disponible lg86-D : How to E-mail an Encyclopedia, by Graham Jenkins : en cours de traduction par Guillaume Lelarge lg86-E : Security with PHP Superglobals, by David Lechnyr : en cours de traduction par Yael Gomez lg86-F : Perl One-Liner of the Month: The Case of the Evil Spambots, by Okopnik : disponible lg86-G : Programming in Ruby - Part 3, by Hiran Ramankutty : disponible lg86-H : Debian APT Part 2: Installing Unreleased Software, by Rob Tougher : en cours de traduction par Claire Boussard lg86-I : Exploring TCP/IP with TCPdump and Tethereal, by Vinayak Hegde : en cours de traduction par Yael Gomez lg86-J : Is vmWare good for Linux users?, by Alan Ward : disponible ---------- Articles de la LG n°85 (décembre 2002) : lg85-A : Modern Linux Distributions and Hardware-Challenged PC's, by Richard Johnson : disponible lg85-B : Handicapped People of the World, Unite!, by Janine M Lodato : traduit par Claire Boussard, relu par Joëlle Cornavin lg85-C : So You Wann Create You Own x86 Operating System?, by Patrick Mahoney : traduit par Guillaune Lelarge, relu par Joëlle Cornavin lg85-D : Viewing Faxes on the Web, by Mark Nielsen : traduit par Guillaume Lelarge, relu par Joëlle Cornavin lg85-E : Perl One-Liner of the Month: The Case of the Duplicate UIDs, by Ben Okopnik : disponible lg85-F : Programming Bits: C# Data Types, by Ariel Ortiz Ramirez : disponible lg85-G : Process Tracing Using Ptrace - Part III, by Sandeep : disponible lg85-H : Making a Multiple-Boot CD, by Juraj Sipos : traduit par Guillaume Lelarge, relu par Joëlle Cornavin lg85-I : Getting Started with TIX, by Vinayak Hegde : disponible ---------- Articles de la LG N°84 (novembre 2002) : lg84-A : Adding Plugin Capabilities To Your Code, by Tom Bradley : traduit par Joëlle Cornavin, relu par Guillaume Lelarge lg84-B : Making Your Own Toy Boot Floppy, by Muhammad Torabi Dashti : disponible lg84-C : How main() is executed on Linux, by Hyouck "Hawk" Kim : traduit par Guillaulme Lelarge, relu par Joëlle Cornavin lg84-D : Perl One-Liner of the Month: The Adventure of the Misnamed Files, by Ben Okopnik : disponible lg84-E : Programming Bits: Meeting C# and Mono, by Ariel Ortiz Ramirez : traduit par Joêlle Cornavin, relu par Guillaule Lelarge lg84-F : Debian APT Part 1: Basic Commands, by Rob Tougher : traduit par Jean-Philipppe Guérard, relu par Joëlle Cornavin lg84-G : Using the Logical Volume Manager, by Vinayak Hegde : traduit par Guillaune Lelarge, relu par Joëlle Cornavin ---------- Articles de la LG N°83 (octobre 2002) : lg83-A : Saving Users From Themselves -or- Dealing with User Input in Python, by Paul Evans : disponible lg83-B : Creating Makefiles: A Mini Tutorial, by Tedi Heriyanto : en cours de traduction par Florence Cousin lg83-C : Multi-Account E-mail with Mutt, by Kamil Klimkiewicz : disponible lg83-D : Replicating a Linux System - Yet Another Method, by Ben Okopnik : disponible lg83-E : Exploring Perl Modules - Part2: Creating Charts with GD::Graph, by Pradeep Padala : disponible lg83-F : Handling Power Status Using snmptrapd, by A B Prasad : disponible lg83-G : Programming in Ruby, part 2,by Hiran Ramankutty : disponible lg83-H : Process Tracing Using Ptrace, part 2, by Sandeep S : disponible lg83-I : DVD Authoring, by Chris Stoddard : disponible lg83-J : Risk-Free Resource Allocation for I/O Memory-Mapped Device Drivers, by Dr B Thangaraju : disponible lg83-K : Apache Log Analysis Using Python, by Rob Tougher : disponible lg83-L : Subnetting your local network with DHCP, by Alan Ward : disponible ---------- Articles de la LG N°82 (septembre 2002) : lg82-A : Writing your own Toy OS - Part III, by Raghu and Chitkala : disponible lg83-B : Kerberos: The watchdog of the Ether, by Raj Shekhar : disponible lg83-C : My Guide To Digital Photography, by Rob Tougher : disponible lg83-D : Adaptive Linux Firewalls, by Vasoo Veerapen : disponible lg83-E : Multihead Systems under Linux and Windows, by Alan Ward : disponible ---------- Article de la LG N° 81 (août 2002) : lg81-A : Introduction to Programming Ada, by Thomas Adam : disponible lg81-B : Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution, by Thomas Adam : disponible lg81-C : Playing DVDs on Linux, by Tunji Durodola : disponible lg81-D : Is Your Memory Not What It Used To Be?, by Madhu M Kurup : disponible le81-E : Exploring Perl Modules - Part 1: On-The-Fly Graphics with GD, by Pradeep Padala : disponible lg81-F : Programming in Ruby, part 1, by Hiran Ramankutty : disponible lg81-G : Process Tracing Using Ptrace, by Sandeep S : disponible lg81-H : Secure and Robust Computer Systems for Primary and Secondary Schools, by Richard A Sevenich and Michael P Angelo : disponible lg81-I : Creating Reusable Software Libraries, by Rob Tougher : disponible lg82-J : SysRq: The Process-nuke, by Vikas G P : disponible Joëlle Cornavin -- Coordinateur Linux Gazette coordination-gazette(a)traduc.org

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Le point sur les traductions de la Linux Gazette de janvier
by JC 02 Jan '03

02 Jan '03

Le point sur les traductions de la Linux Gazette de janvier : lg86-A : An Undeletion Experience, by C.E.C. Artime and J.A. Baro => en cours de traduction par Guillaume Lelarge le86-B : I Broke the Console Barrier, by Stephen Bint => en cours de traduction par Guillaume Lelarge lg86-C : EcolNet and the escomposLinux.org project, by Javier Malonda lg86-D : Security with PHP Superglobals, by David Lechnyr=20 lg86-E : Perl One-Liner of the Month: The Case of the Duplicate UIDs, by Ben Okopnik lg86-F : How to E-mail an Encyclopedia, by Graham Jenkins => en cours de traduction par Guillaume Lelarge lg86-G : Perl One-Liner of the Month: The Case of the Evil Spambots, by Ben Okopnik => disponible lg86-H : Programming in Ruby - Part 3, by Hiran Ramankutty => disponible lg86-I : Debian APT Part 2: Installing Unreleased Software, by Rob Tougher => disponible lg86-J : Exploring TCP/IP with TCPdump and Tethereal, by Vinayak Hegde => en cours de traduction par Yael Gomez lg86-K : Is vmWare good for Linux users?, by Alan Ward =>disponible Joëlle Cornavin Coordinateur Linux Gazette coordination-gazette(a)traduc.org

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Re: [Traduc] Linux Gazette de janvier 2003
by Yael Gomez 02 Jan '03

02 Jan '03

Bonjour, je suis preneur pour: lg86-J : Exploring TCP/IP with TCPdump and Tethereal lg86-D : Security with PHP Superglobals Yael. > --- Original Message --- > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 12:13:48 +0100 > From: JC <jcornavi(a)club-internet.fr> > > Bonjour et meilleurs voeux � tou(te)s pour cette nouvelle ann�e. > > Voici les articles du num�ro de janvier disponibles � la traduction : > > lg86-A : An Undeletion Experience, by C.E.C. Artime and J.A. Baro > > le86-B : I Broke the Console Barrier, by Stephen Bint > > lg86-C : EcolNet and the escomposLinux.org project, by Javier Malonda > > lg86-D : Security with PHP Superglobals, by David Lechnyr > > lg86-E : Perl One-Liner of the Month: The Case of the Duplicate UIDs, by > Ben > Okopnik > > lg86-F : How to E-mail an Encyclopedia, by Graham Jenkins > > lg86-G : Perl One-Liner of the Month: The Case of the Evil Spambots, by Ben > > Okopnik > > lg86-H : Programming in Ruby - Part 3, by Hiran Ramankutty > > lg86-I : Debian APT Part 2: Installing Unreleased Software, by Rob Tougher > > > lg86-J : Exploring TCP/IP with TCPdump and Tethereal, by Vinayak Hegde > > lg86-K : Is vmWare good for Linux users?, by Alan Ward > > Pour le moment, vous pouvez utiliser le patron sgml, t�l�chargeable sur le > > ftp, mais j'envisage quelques modifications dans le cadre de notre > r�organisation, et dont je vous tiendrai inform�(e)s d�s que possible. > > Merci de votre collaboration > > Jo�lle Cornavin > Coodinateur Linux Gazette > coordination-gazette(a)traduc.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Traduc mailing list > Traduc(a)traduc.org > http://www.traduc.org/mailman/listinfo/traduc >

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Linux Gazette de janvier 2003
by JC 02 Jan '03

02 Jan '03

Bonjour et meilleurs voeux à tou(te)s pour cette nouvelle année. Voici les articles du numéro de janvier disponibles à la traduction : lg86-A : An Undeletion Experience, by C.E.C. Artime and J.A. Baro le86-B : I Broke the Console Barrier, by Stephen Bint lg86-C : EcolNet and the escomposLinux.org project, by Javier Malonda lg86-D : Security with PHP Superglobals, by David Lechnyr lg86-E : Perl One-Liner of the Month: The Case of the Duplicate UIDs, by Ben Okopnik lg86-F : How to E-mail an Encyclopedia, by Graham Jenkins lg86-G : Perl One-Liner of the Month: The Case of the Evil Spambots, by Ben Okopnik lg86-H : Programming in Ruby - Part 3, by Hiran Ramankutty lg86-I : Debian APT Part 2: Installing Unreleased Software, by Rob Tougher lg86-J : Exploring TCP/IP with TCPdump and Tethereal, by Vinayak Hegde lg86-K : Is vmWare good for Linux users?, by Alan Ward Pour le moment, vous pouvez utiliser le patron sgml, téléchargeable sur le ftp, mais j'envisage quelques modifications dans le cadre de notre réorganisation, et dont je vous tiendrai informé(e)s dès que possible. Merci de votre collaboration Joëlle Cornavin Coodinateur Linux Gazette coordination-gazette(a)traduc.org

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Traduc Janvier 2003